Tounge problems! HELP!!!

[mountedgamesrider]

Since this summer I have been made aware that my pony plays with her bit and puts her tounge over the bit! What started out as just something she did once a week during warm up has now progressed into a pony that wont have her tounge under the bit at all!!!

She has had som time of this fall because of injury and I thought maybe the problem stemmed from her having pains before we discovered the injury, but that doesn't seem to be the case!

She had her teeth checked this summer, they were fine!
She is perfectly healthy!
She has had her saddle checked! It needed new stuffing but is now fine.
She has had several visits from an equine theraphast and althought she's getting some treatment things are generally fine!

I've tried to get a straight bar snaffle, which I was recomended.
I've tried lowering, raising her bit. Taking off the noseband, changing noseband, tightening and losening the noseband... noting helps!

Today I rode for 20 minutes, I got off 6 times and physically put her tounge under the bit. I wasn't in the saddle for more than a second berfore I saw that she started playing and the tounge was over the bit in a flash!

Does anybody have any advice for me???? I'm getting desperate! I feel like curling up in a dark corner and cry!
I don't understand why she's doing this and why she's started this last year? She hasn't done it before!

(You can answer in swedish, I understand swedish)

 

[lektra]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

Har du prövat att plocka upp bettet en bit?

 

[mountedgamesrider]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

Har du prövat att plocka upp bettet en bit?

Yes, that's what raising the bit means...

 

[Vita_N_6520]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

Har du pratat med en tränare så det inte är din ridning som stör hästen i munnen?

Eller om bettet/n du använder är för tjocka så tungan inte får plats?
Vad har du provat för olika bett?
Det finns ju tungfelsbett som man kan testa. Inget som jag själv tycker man bör använda i själva ridningen men på vissa hästar kan det ju fungera bara att de psykiskt vet att tungan inte kommer över bettet..
Om du longerar ( / tömkör ) med bett, gör hästen likadant då? Gör den inte det så är det nog handen snarare än bettet som är felet.Hur länge hade du haft ponnyn innan den började med det? Var det något annat som hände i samband med det?
Alltså, om det typ hände vid någon specifik grej i själva ridningen? (Typ när det blev jobbigt el liknande..)

Sen är det ju så att hästar som tar tungan över bettet gärna tar för vana att alltid göra det.
Vi hade en häst som hade tungen hängandes utanför munnen jämt (På vintern frös den, på sommaren torkade den ) och hon hade ju gått med det så pass länge att det var ren vana helt enkelt.
Vet ej varför hon gjorde d från början..
Poängen är ju att ju längre tid det går, desto svårare är det att få bukt med problemet.

 

[shlubberdubb]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

KL

I'll send you a PM to save the rest from an english conversation.

 

[mountedgamesrider]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

First question; I don't lounge her much as we haven't got any good ground right now. We're moving on sunday and there's an indoor school at the new stable, so everything should be better.

I don't know if it's my hand, but she puts her tounge over the bit before I take any rein contact...

I really don't want to put her in a stronger bit if I can help it.

She's ridden in a straight bar snaffle or a loose ring french link snaffle. She was worse in the french link, but now she's equally bad in both bits. I ride her in a hackamoore on hacks etc. but she doesn't work in an outline in a hackamoore, she wont take the suport she needs as she's not strong enough to carry herself yet. And a hackamoore inflicts pressure when tightened wich doesn't invite her to take support on it.

Thanks for all the excellent tips. I'm going to get her mouth checked again and I'm going to get an instructor, but I have to get a new one as I think my last one focused to much on the front of the pony and not enough on the action in the behind.

 

[mackan]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

As others have commented, I would definitely check her teeth again. Did you have them checked at a clinic last time, or was it a home visiting vet? the difference in my experience is quite prominent, as a clinic with full equipment can detect problems that a home visiting vet (no matter how knowledgeable) can.

I would start there. a stronger bit wont make a difference, the strenght of the bit got nothing to do with the habit/tendency to pull the tongue over the bit.

I am curious to hear more about how she acts on a hack. You suggest that she is not happy with that either.... the next step, if you cant find anything wrong with her bit/teeth, would be to check the horse for other problems, such as back problems or the like. If she is acting stressed in any way while being ridden , the tounge problem may only be a symptom for something else that is bothering the horse and that she is trying to find a way to deal with.

 

[Alexandra_W]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

*KL*

Har du provat något bett med mer tungfrihet?

 

[shlubberdubb]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

Mackan is on to something. Have her back properly checked.

Other than that - you have PM again with link to a Swedish equine dentist. As far as I know, the only equine dentist who is actually a dentist. He started on humans.

As your pony does this even without contact could mean it has nothing to do with your hand? How long have you had her? as she done this from day dot? At the same time as it might not have anything to do with your hand it still could. She might be expecting discomfort and is preventing it by immidietely placing her tongue above the bit.

I told you in a PM that my horse takes to a weymout like a duck to water. What I didn't say is that it very well could be my hand as I'm terrified of being to hard on the rein when I have him tacked up with the weymouth. My hand is more still and lighter and I am rewarded with a lovely contact and a horse slurping on the bit as if he had a lolly in his mouth. Foaming up really nice. Mind you, he foams up on the weymouth even if I'm walking by his side so could be a combination of enjoying having all that steel in his mouth (he is very mouthy in general) and me having a softer hand.

 

[lektra]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

jaa, förlåt. Läste inte ordentligt.

Du har fått flera bra råd. Men ännu ett: Om jag skulle bli ostadig eller för hård i handen på min ponny så svarar hon direkt med att gapa och/eller lägga över tungan. Det kan helt enkelt vara ridningen som gör det.

 

[oxo]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

Jag hade prövat ett tungfelsbett fötutsatt att hästen inte har problem med munnen. Var tvungen att ha det på en av mina gamla hästar och det är ju inte mkt skarpare än ett vanligt tränsbett.

 

[svea]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

Har du provat att helt enkelt fortsätta att rida när hon lägger tungan över bettet? Att lägga tungan över bettet är i de flesta fall en strategi som hästarna tar till när det bli jobbigt. Och om ryttaren hoppar av för att lägga tungan till rätta så fort hästen lägger tungan över bettet - ja, då har strategin fungerat perfekt ur hästens synvinkel. Hästen har tränat sin ryttare perfekt!

Min häst lägger emellanåt över tungan när arbetet blir jobbigt och jag ber om saker som ligger på gränsen till vad han orkar med, och vad jag gör då är att med en lugn, mjuk och stadig hand fortsätta be om kontakt, och fortsätter att arbeta honom in i handen bakifrån. Eftersom jag inte har någon hård nosgrimma och inte bettet högt upphissat kan han själv välja att lägga tillbaka tungan när han vill, och det gör han oftast också. Om jag märker att han har problem att lägga tillbaka tungan så kan det hända att jag stannar för att låta honom lägga tillbaka den.

Det här funkar förstås inte om man har en hård eller ostadig hand, för utgångspunkten är att man ska undvika att be om en kortare ram än vad som är rimligt för hästen att arbeta i. Om ramen är rimlig och handen är still så har hästen möjlighet att själv välja hur hårt trycket på tungan ska vara vid normal ridning, för då vet den var handen är och den klarar att gå så eftergiven att den kan vara mjuk mot handen = mjuk mot sig själv. En häst som inte riktigt orkar klarar inte att vara mjuk, och då tar tungan stryk. Då vill hästen lägga tungan över bettet.

 

[Asa_S]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

I had a pony here a couple of months ago who had a bad relationship with the bit. She reacted strongly as soon as I tried any communication involving the bit, twisting her tongue 90 degees or putting it over the bit while tossing her head violently, getting up on her hind legs or simply putting her head to the ground beside one of her front legs and refusing to move. Since she was far too small for me to ride, I had no option but to work her in long reins. I tried to use her halter instead of the bridle but in her case I think it was mostly a question of her being used to scaring people into letting her do her thing (she was watching me in the corner of her eye all the time to "evaluate" my reaction), because I got the same reaction regardless.

The solution with the bit was in her relaxing. I carried on as if nothing had happened, asking her to change direction and gait in a very calm way and relaxing the rein as soon as I got a reaction. Many half-halts to check her concentration, followed by ease. When my daughter rode her later on she often put her tongue over (very quietly at that point, however) and I never got them passed that, but when I worked her she was all right, probably because her focus was with me and also because my hand is much more relaxed (but then I didn't jump her or collected rings with a sword).

Often I think this behavior is because the horse wishes to have his/her mouth to him/herself. The reason for this could probably be found in different areas, but often it gets better with a very still hand and a light contact. I hope you find a solution, because this is something that easily becomes a habit that remains long after the original cause is removed...

 

[mountedgamesrider]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

Her teeth was checked at a clinic this summer...
and she's checked out regularly by a equine therapest and was recently checked by a vet.

I am gonna get her teeth checked again...

Also she has a new apointment in 2 weeks with the therapest.

I know she has some minor stuff going on right now, but that's nothing to what she was like when I got her, so she should have gotten better instead of worse.

She's a very quiet pony, sort of lazy in dressage. She doesn't show any other signs other than this tounge thing!
All I do right now is walk circles and some shoulder fore and a bit of half pass to keep her supple as we have no indoor school.

As for the hackamoore... As I said she's sort of lazy and she wont do anything unless you tell her rather firmly (unless it's jumping or mounted games, which she loves).
She loves her hackamoore because then she can have her head in the air and there's very little I can do about her speed when doing canter work.
I've owned her for 2 years and when I got her she didn't work in an outline for the first year, then when I finally managed to get her to understand what was expected of her, she started to lean on the bit. Which is natural as she wasn't strong enough to carry herself. (PS she's not a youngster).
Then this spring, things changed and I could work her in a low outline without her pulling my arms out. By august she went really well, but she sometimes put her toung over the bit during warm up (as if she was bored).

She went lame in september and had 2 months off work. I started riding her again at the end of november and she worked beautifully in her straight bar snaffle, but put her tounge over the bit in her french link. For many reasons she has been in light work up until now. She only hacks out and does a little suppling in walk. I haven't realized that the problem was as bad because I haven't felt anything different. But the day I wrote the first part of this thread I rode outside som windows and I could see what she was doing. She doesn't put her tounge out, but you can see her mouthing the bit and when I checked she had her tounge over the bit. So I put it back and almost before I was mounted, the tounge was over the bit again.

I'm gonna try some lessons as well, but I'm worried she will have made a habit out of this and that an instructor wont help...but I'll try anything.

She has no respect for bitless bridles but I like to ride her in a hackamoore when hacking as I think you should give your horses mouth some time off when you can.

This is quite long but I had to try and answer all questions and explain.

Should I put her in a special bit until I can get some help from an instructor?
I could try a bit with more tounge space, but she has tounge space in her french link so I don't know, even if it sounds logical to me!

 

[Alexandra_W]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

French link actually puts pressure on the tounge. Not as much as a straight bar, and if she was fine before on the straight bar, it feels odd that she resists it now.

But I had a TB mare who literally hated any kind of tounge pressure. Straight bar, jointed, double jointed/french link - you name it and she hated it. And it felt really out of control and unsecure to put her in a bitless bit of any kind. She also was a head in the air-type of girl when I bought her (with terrible teeths). Anyway, she clearly wanted tounge release, and she only worked well in bits with a big but wide tounge space. Her favourite was a weymouth actually.

Anyway, she did the same as your girl on some of the bits with tounge pressure, put her tounge over the bit (and then went crazy over the feel of it).

If it had been today, I would have tried her on a S-hackamore for variation. Many horses who do not respont to regular hackamore or bitless bridles, actually respect the S-hackamore and relax in it.

 

[mountedgamesrider]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

What's a S hackamoore???

Weymouth... got to go check the bitbank now cause I'm not shure what that one is....

 

[mountedgamesrider]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

OK, Google is great!

Weymouth seems to be one of the parts of the double bridle used for dressage. Can you ride with only one part? Because the bridon bit would put pressure in the tounge again.
Is a pelham with tounge space someting to try?

Thanks for all the good help!

 

[Alexandra_W]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

Well, you CAN ride on the weymouth only, but it is unusual, and I did not feel good doing it, and tried to get a snaffle bit with the same shape of the mouthpiece as the weymouh made to measure to her. Then I by accident found out that she liked one of the Myler bits, and stayed with that and then I lost her due to injury, so never reached the goal to find the perfect bit.

She would tolerate the bridoon better in combination with they weymouth. I never understood it. Only the bridoon - unhappy mare and tounge over bit (already in the stall, and not even touching the reins). Waymouth and the very same bridoon - happy horse. Sometimes its just not meant to be understood I guess.

But there is double jointed bits with tounge relief on the centerpiece, might be a starter to try with maybe?

 

[shlubberdubb]

Sv: Tounge problems! HELP!!!

She would tolerate the bridoon better in combination with they weymouth. I never understood it. Only the bridoon - unhappy mare and tounge over bit (already in the stall, and not even touching the reins). Waymouth and the very same bridoon - happy horse. Sometimes its just not meant to be understood I guess.

Apart from the "tongue over bit" you just described my boy.